ditto.

thirded.

Experimental music can be song-based and melodic as well!

you're old, but don't let it bother you.

Examples Shaun?

ie this is what normal music sounds like so lets do the opposite.

Some stuff is definitely reactionary but it's useful to question (and explain) what you regard as being normal music as well.

Examples Shaun?

Velvet underground

a lot of this stuff is really boring and wanky but like any other genre there's some good stuff in there.

i cant be bothered suggesting things now though :)

one way in is to listen to increasingly atonal film scores.

What's ''normal music''?

'Experimental' music is just as much about rhythms, tones, moods and emotions as any pop music. That's why a lot of artists today combine elements of more than one type of music.

In the end it's all about what you personally respond to.

I like dissonance fighting it out with structure, noise colliding with melody, rhythm with drone.

MGMT are my favourite experimental band.

I see VU as a very traditional band. The songs had verses and choruses and lyrics (that even rhymed sometimes). Sure they had some droney freakout bits but basically they wrote pop songs.

The stuff I'm talking about is where a performer gets on stage and just makes atonal sounds for 20 minutes.

re less structured music - I rather like that it (often) attempts an individual mode of expression - that people are trying to make a sound that is unique to them (or collaborating in a unique manner), rather than following a song-based template laid down 50 years ago and just giving it a little lick of paint. There are as many potential sounds as there are people to make 'em - which says something about diversity that rings true to me.

I found that I really started getting into this stuff when I stopped looking for a ''neat'' emotional response to music - now I try not to bring preconceptions/expectations to a show - however the sound makes me think/feel is how it makes me think/feel.

Hm. Judging by the two paragraphs of wafflecunt above, I guess it might be a bit tricky to explain.

Context. I have to be in the right place and frame of mind. For instance, the 21:00:00 exhibition. On headphones, some of the pieces were mindblowingly good. I don't think I could just chuck on a cd at home at any time though. Justice Yeldham - fantastic live, but I don't think I'd buy a cd.

Yeah, I'm with Frankie (I think). I listen to what is regarded 'experimental' music for the mood and emotion it evokes, in a similar way I would pop or rock music. There are instances where you can detachedly appreciate something for it's form alone, but I don't find myself attracted to that type of music very often.

The stuff I'm talking about is where a performer gets on stage and just makes atonal sounds for 20 minutes.

I'm not sure what to say other than, there's no accounting for taste! :)

we did it all before the internet. these days dudes think they are new but it was done before we just didn't post links on mess and noise

Velvet underground

pop music you mean?

i think the worst kind is ''noise''. there are some laughably bad links to noise music on here. it wouldn't be so bad but they look so serious. obviously i'm happy for their hobby and i'd never tell them they were terrible, but.. I think they should have just learnt how to play for real instead of pretending to be avant garde.

You must let noise wash over you. You can find structure as you listen, and while it's not always clear why you liked or hated something, trying to find out is fun. It's not necessarily what's in the artist's mind that matters - it's what's in yours.

what's there to get?

The stuff I'm talking about is where a performer gets on stage and just makes atonal sounds for 20 minutes.

this is something quite specific, and honestly yeah 99% of the time this stuff is boring. i think the motivation behind a lot of it comes from a will to do something different, but the problem with experimental is that 9/10 experiments fail.

what i'm saying is most of these acts suck but occasionally one of them will be able to tap into something really cool with it and maybe you'd be surprised at the different feeling you get from the usual pop/rock music.

I don't get 'experiments'

I mean, scientists – they put things in test tubes and mix them and heat them do other things, and sometimes an interesting reaction happens and sometimes it doesn't.

I mean, WTF? Why do they even bother? They're all just a bunch of bespectacled wankers in white coats. I don't care if amino acids mix well with ... ummm, glue ... and chlorophyll.

....

I guess my point is: shouldn't experimental music exist regardless of people's opinions of it?

If you like some experimental music – fine, that's one outcome of the experiment. If you don't – also fine, that's another outcome.

Experimental music isn't meant to sound 'good'. And anyone who makes it, or listens to a certain piece, and thinks less of a person for not 'understanding' or liking it is missing the point of experimentation.

I'd say fennesz is experimental and is someone whom i listen to actively.

Most experimental music for me doesnt have must music longevity on my music playlists, but it can be interesting nonetheless(such as William Basinski's Disintegration Loops).

I could never ever exclusively listen to abrasive noise projects constantly

Experimental music isn't meant to sound 'good'.

i dunno - there's lots of broken, weird stuff that's aesthetically gorgeous. steve reich (music for 18 musicians?) and the necks (aether?) come to mind straight up, but there's a lot more out there.

Define 'good'

its more of an intellectual head-fuck rather than mainstream musical hickey.

I knew a guy who had a good take on the term ''experimental music.'' His view was that all music is at some point experimental, and that generally should be the point at which you are experimenting, alone or with others, to come up with what it is you are going to perform/record whatever. This could be any kind of music, but the only time you can truly call it experimental is when you are experimenting. As a term or genre for live or recorded music it is rubbish.

What you see when you see someone do something non-traditional then, is less experimental than perhaps abstract. If you can't deal with or don't like abstraction that's fine. If you can and do, that's also fine. Some people like fairy bread, some people like snails. Some people like both.

That's a good point. If you're performing something you have done before, it's not really an experiment anymore, is it?

I've seen very little music in my life I would actually term an experiment, yes.

I mean, to use a famous example, when 4'33 was first performed, was that an experiment? I would say no. I would say it was a piece of music, based on chance. I wouldn't even consider writing it an experiment, but at some point Cage experimented with the idea of writing it, then he did so.

Define 'good'

they meant to say 'not dissonant'

is sonant a word?

'Good' is in the ear of the behearer.

Anyway, as a term I find ''experimental'' about as useful as ''indie'' - that is to say, not very. And both make me shudder just a little bit.

is sonant a word?

Yes. Derived from ''sonance'' which supposedly means ''The sensation caused by vibrating wave motion that is perceived by the organs of hearing: noise, sound''.

...though from that def I can't see how there'd be a different between the pleasing-ness level of sounds?

Imagine hearing Japanese for the first time (or second, or whatever) and then getting fucked off because you don't 'get' it intrinsically. Perhaps it's just that you don't understand the language, rather than the content being shit or its speakers being arrogant?

I like that metaphor.

I knew a guy who had a good take on the term ''experimental music.'' His view was that all music is at some point experimental, and that generally should be the point at which you are experimenting, alone or with others, to come up with what it is you are going to perform/record whatever. This could be any kind of music, but the only time you can truly call it experimental is when you are experimenting. As a term or genre for live or recorded music it is rubbish.

I like this too. Considering that most ''experimental'' music performances are improvisational in nature, your friend is spot on. That's not to say that a recording of an improvised piece is not ''experimental'', but I see the point that, for example, a performance of a precisely written experimental score by a contemporary composer is NOT in itself ''experimental'' unless (like Stockhausen for example) it allows for variation or improvisation within its framework.

I much prefer the term ''improvised music'' to ''experimental music'', but obviously not all ''experimental'' music is improvised.

is sonant a word?

If I had said 'consonant' that would have confused you also.

the key words are status quo & western, dissonant & avant garde

Annoyed Glenn Branca is Annoyed, no matter what your take on experimental music is.

Have you ever noticed that Branca's voice sounds EXACTLY like that of Dr. Marvin Monroe from the Simpsons?

WEIRD

Struth! You're right!