Somebody has necked a couple of Green Toyotas for Lunch.

the expectation of profit is something that pisses me off about sydney. but carry on

just talking about the industry there. too many shite bands. we've had that thread though

If someone is making money in sydney i'd like to know how!

the expectation of profit is something that pisses me off about sydney. but carry on

but i'm sure this carries over anywhere. there are a number of bands in sydney who don't 'obviously' operate with the expectation of profit. can't speak for how they really feel though. I can't imagine some of my favourite bands playing the way they do to break even! :)

You forgot to thank the fanz , Frankie! ;) heehee.

whoops, wrong thread?

If someone is making money in Melbourne they'd probably just spend it at the Old Bar.

i heart you frankie.

Play the hoey.
Free beer all night + good attendace = making money in sydeny.

my only real exposure has been to the brisbane community but i am often struck by the pervasive loveliness of everyone involved.

aww frankie... same can be said for theatre/arts community too. But yeah - once you step up a level a lot of people loose the ''let's all muck in and make this work'' attitude... which is kinda depressing.

I was talking about this with a friend last night and we came to the conclusion that when there is no expectation of making money out of what you're doing, interesting things are more likely to happen. I reckon we're in that kinda timeperiod right now.

As an example we cited the great warehouse scene in Sydney and the number of new bands that are making great music that we've seen recently.

Redlips - yep, this applies to all sorts of different fields of arts and culture. In my dayjob we'd probably use some wanky term like 'fostering cultural citizenship', but it pretty much amounts to the same thing: people feeling like they can have a go and coming up with the goods.

This is Frankie, he's my foster cultural citizen.

i concur wholeheartedly. it's really great to be the boss of this community and i thank you all for the privilege.

josejones would, however, like to continue to sponge canapes and drinks from the professional arts world whilst maintaining his indie cred.

... as would I. kthxbai

yeah that sounds like living the dream to me.

Without wanting to sound clumsily earnest, I agree with Frankie and think its a really good time to be involved in DIY music and counterculture.

One thing I suspect is that the corporate grunge explosion of the early nineties undermined some DIY scenes for many years. I'm know a HC element was immune to this, but certainly allot of indie kids would have formed bands with an automatic consideration of what label they were going to get signed to etc. I think much of that has gone now and our creative communities are all the healthier for it.

having cunts to drink with and borrow gear off in every town in this fair land of ours = awesome

My lifestyle determins my deathstyle.

look at that kick drum. points at pro tools rig with pro tools jockey gimp sitting there see that kick drum...it gives me a ahrad on.

oh btw can you just move that kick drum a bit? that one is slightly out..

HARD ON!

Can somebody please explain to me whats ''countercultural'' about the ''DIY/independent'' music community? Not being cheeky, i really want to know

Norther, are you referring to Teenage Jesus' post?

Without wanting to sound clumsily earnest, I agree with Frankie and think its a really good time to be involved in DIY music and counterculture.

If so, I don't think he means to say that DIY music is by default countercultural. I guess it can be though if you want it to be. Plenty good examples out there.

cool, thanks for the clarification. Give me some examples...i personally beleived capitalism is protected from all forms of counter culture

I want my anger to be healthy,
,I want my anger just for me
,I need my anger not to control
,I want my anger to be me

I want to ride my 3 wheeled trike down to the rehearsal studio and argue with some dipshit about guitar solos.

Norther, you should direct that question at TeenageJesus, not me.

From my perspective though, it's possible to go counter the prevailing culture by doing things differently, for example not doing things for profit, advancement of status or competition.
It's also possible to put countercultural ideas (political, social, artistic) into music / art / whatever and find an audience for it. I'm not saying I personally am doing that, but there are others who are, either explicitly (ie. Assassination Collective) or implicitly (free music, improv, etc.

Norther, I used the term counterculture to broaden the scope of my point beyond the independent music community. I guess it can be a vague term but for the purpose of this discussion it was meant to imply creativity that eschews commercial priorities in favour of an independent/underground community.

i personally beleived capitalism is protected from all forms of counter culture

Interesting statement. If you mean that changing the way we live and create is insufficient on its own to tear the head off the ruling class, then I agree. But if you mean capitalism is so ideologically hegemonic that oppositional ideas will never gain traction, I disagree. Also, having alternative creative communities gives many of us a space to stay sane, which without our own efforts capitalism would not provide!

Capitalism has the best toys, though.

Frankie:''There's definitely a feeling that if you go out on a limb and organise stuff you are not going to be shot down for it, but encouraged instead. ''

it's not very encouraging when people don't attend things you organise, no matter how much people say it's a great thing that you're doing....

or when you put out a cd and get ignored after being hyped.

seems it gets pretty nasty once ya get going a little bit.

shaun i didnt see you at consolador last night!

got the flu buddy - you want it?

all I want is a Tom Verlaine action figure.

uh no thanks. get better soon

I want a Frankie Teardrop action figure. With specs of intellect accessory

i personally beleived capitalism is protected from all forms of counter culture

I believe capitalism is really wickedly good at co-opting and eventually eating up all forms of counter-culture.

That's how it renews itself.

The secret to the end of capitalism is.... Chinese Democracy