Dave Graney: ‘We Need A New Proxy!’
DAVE GRANEY took minutes on yesterday’s round table meeting between members of Melbourne’s music community and Victoria’s government bigwigs.
1.30pm: Arrived at Treasury Place for the meeting at 2pm. What a pleasant garden it is too. I sat and read a book for a while. Then a crowd gathered, more people than I was expecting, but what the hey? We all went in and got security tags and were led to a conference room. This is who was there:
John Brumby: Premier, lead singer of the Brumby Government.
Brian Kearney: Australian Hotels Association CEO and former director of Liquor Licensing.
Peter Chellew: General manager, The Push.
Richard Moffat: Way Over There (representing Corner Hotel, Northcote Social Club and East Brunswick Club).
Penny Armytage: Secretary, Department of Justice (she has to write the rules and legislation I guess).
Richard Wynne: Member for Richmond.
Rob Spence: Municipal Association of Victoria.
Terry Noone: Secretary, Musicians Union of Australia (Melbourne branch).
Carl Gardiner: Managing director, Mushroom Music.
Kirsty Rivers: APRA.
Wally Kempton/Meanie: Bass player, Espy booker.
Tony Robinson: Minister for Consumer Affairs.
Michael Gudinski: Frontier Touring/Liberation Music.
Quincy McLean: Musician, SLAM march organiser.
Rob Hudson: Parliamentary secretary.
Jon Perring: Fair Go 4 Live Music; co-owner Bar Open, Yah Yah’s and Pony.
Clare Bowditch: Musician.
Dave McCluney: Atalantis Studios.
Andrew McGee: Torn & Frayed.
2pm: We all introduced ourselves. I took the opportunity to say I was a musician of many decades, had recorded 22 albums and enjoyed the chaotic and dynamic nature of playing in clubs as opposed to theatre or recital-type situations. I said they were messing it up and should de-link live music venues from the "high risk" category. Quincy read a letter from Paul Kelly.
There was an hour allowed for the meeting. John Brumby spoke of violence in the streets being the intent of the legislation and government focus on that problem. Tony Robinson spoke of the licensing reform process being a fundamental thing and a work in progress. There are apparently 611 “high risk” venues.
Brumby put out an idea to replace "high risk" with a new set of rules. No security demands if music is over by 10pm and not if there are less than 50 people in a venue open until 1am.
Richard Moffat spoke of three venues he is involved in (see above). Two close at 3am and one at 1am. the latter has the most problems.
Wally and I interjected a few times to state that there is little evidence, in our experience, of violence at live music venues. I also objected to them talking about “small venues” as if they were a marginal part of the scene, pointing out that most of the activity is at lots of “small venues”. I also stated that these “small venues” entertain more people than the multimillion dollar recital hall in Southbank.
2.45pm: Brian Kearney spoke. He said that the definition of "live and amplified music" became a "proxy" to determine "high risk" at some point in the ’90s. This became a point of agreement at the end of the day, that this "proxy" isn’t right and other things would be much better stressed. For instance, a venue with live music is "high risk" automatically, but a sports bar with a bunch of blokes and a giant TV screen is not.
2.50pm: Carl Gardiner from Mushroom spoke, asking that whoever is making these decisions in government should do more research and have someone from the music scene involved in any decisions.
2.52pm: Michael Gudinski finally thundered into life, testifying that there is no violence at live music venues and that the problem is with all the pilled-up douches at the King Street discos. He thumped the table and waved his arms and had everybody’s attention. It was pretty great. Like Khrushchev thumping the desk with his shoe at the UN.
I meekly mentioned that when I said "chaotic and dynamic" at the beginning I was talking of a sophisticated dialogue in the clubs between musicians and their audiences, not physical jousting.
2.55pm: Tony Robinson disagreed. It’s not only on King Street, he said, and they have “data” to prove it. He and Penny Armytage also spoke of problems with “amenities” (parking and people loitering noisily etc). They believe their “data” is right. This caused much groaning and disbelieving yells. The Premier had to whistle to get everybody to stop. He enjoyed it. "Better than a cabinet meeting," he said.
2.58pm: Armytage said that violence increases every hour after 1am.
3pm: Gardiner said the research is wrong. He compared a crowd at a recent music festival to the number of arrests at a cricket match.
Tony Robinson spoke again.
Terry Noone from the Union spoke, asking everyone to agree to John Brumby’s proposal as it was "a start".
Brumby wanted to end on a note of "accord", saying things like "some merit in your points" and that more discussion was to happen. He asked if we agreed and got a vocal “no” from Wally to my left. Pretty much all of us disagreed. We felt they had created a problem and they had to fix it.
3.15pm: Jon Perring asked for a more sophisticated approach, especially from Liquor Licensing.
Brumby said the government would “ask the Liquor Licensing director to take a more common sense approach”. He pointed out she is a statutory officer and that the government couldn't order her about. He suggested she should be more accommodating to music venues.
Brumby wanted an “accord” at the end of the meeting that would “reflect” a review that would happen and also the importance the government places on live music in Melbourne. He also stressed the “intricacies” of liquor licensing. He pointed to a statement of the government’s plans for the year that he put out last week. It talked of "getting the balance right in regards to Victoria’s nightlife".
He also spoke of Music Victoria. And Victoria Rocks. Something about those, anyway. "Going forward". My mind was wandering in regard to some language by now.
He restated that he was "keen to resolve this".
There was no arts minister (Peter Batchelor) or Liquor Licensing director (Sue Maclellan) present and no lunch was served. There were juices and soft drink only.
Gudinski thanked Brumby for making himself available and asked everybody to "be positive" and that there were "more ways to skin a cat".
Someone referred to the current situation as an "unfortunate glitch".
The meeting was over. Some of us retired to another room to "thrash things out" with Rob Hudson, Armytage, Richard Wynne and about four other secretaries. Sixty percent of us stayed.
These secretaries were the "yes minister" types who spoke plainly. Hudson is like a straight Nick Cave. Died black hair and a sharp suit and unable to keep the sardonic smile from his face. He was getting all the cats into a bag. Pretty impressive. Armytage was also very good. She’s not afraid to admit she doesn't know things. She seems to listen.
It was agreed that the "proxy" or "trigger" for the determination of a venue being "high risk" needed to be looked at, researched and changed. "WE NEED A NEW PROXY!"
Other, more "nuanced" definitions, taking into account the day of the week of the performance and the time of day, needed to be looked at.
It was also stated that any change by the Liquor Licensing people needed to be put to public discussion for 21 days.
It was agreed that there would be a further meeting next week by these people and three people from the crew who were there today. A lot of this talk is not in my area of expertise, really. Liquor licensing and the like. More for the venue owners, I think.
I also think the added pressure of the Save Live Australia’s Music (SLAM) march would help to push things along a little too. A real lot, actually. Better to be outside the tent, pissing in, sometimes.
4pm: Got back on the train and got a couple of dimmies at Ringwood Station where I changed lines. They were just as good as they looked, actually. For once.
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DAVE GRANEY took minutes on yesterday’s round table meeting between me…
That is so monumentally awesome.
It is.
Unlike this:
gudinski should have busted out the ''strangelove'' - that would have had them rattled
No security demands if live music defined as listening to a CD of ''Get Yer Ya Yas Out'' on headphones in the privacy of one's own condominium.
I thought Gudinski's outburst sounds simplistic and divisive.
But I'm not in politics. I wonder how many of the people there were shitting themselves and got the adrenaline buzz when they finally got the nerve to speak up. It's a common sight in meetings where the power balance is skewed.
did Gudinski have any dim sims?
'' A lot of this talk is not in my area of expertise, really. Liquor licensing and the like. More for the venue owners, I think.''
Only my point for the last few days, thank you mr graney.
this is so depressing
Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall here.
Nice reporting Mister Graney!
So, did Clare Bowditch contribute anything to the discussions?
the best bit is the dim sim bit falls into retro rant of the days delivering grog for the grog shop and pulling into the fish and chip shop in the grog van and picking up 4 dim sims on the run sweet days!
Entertaining story, but it would be great to see the recommendations and actions from the meeting if possible?
More dim sims at future meetings
Fascinating, but also quite depressing that this seem's to be a sticking point time and time again : He pointed out she [ LL Director] is a statutory officer and that the government couldn't order her about. He suggested she should be more accommodating to music venues.
Does anyone know why the director of the LLC is such a position? Is it to prevent corruption or something?
I guess there must be lots of rules around the only legal recreational drug dealing operation in the state.
This was really interesting to read. I'm glad Dave's minutes got published - transparency is a good thing.
It appears the main outcome of the meeting was that further smaller scale meetings will be held between politicians (Hudson, Armytage, Wynne et al) and venue owners / industry representatives to nut out proposals for amendments to Liquor Licensing Laws.
This seems like a sensible way forward, as all of the parties involved know what they are talking about and are most likely to come up with realistic propositions.
As Dave Graney states though - it's important to keep on the pressure from the outside through groups like SLAM and Fair Go 4 Live Music, so that the momentum doesn't dissipate.
ya momentum! and we need this thing to keep traction.
Agree completely. Hey, we're complaining about being treated poorly without reflection that there's nuances to how our businesses operate - but let's pretend every single nightclub has violence and drugs and brainless patrons because it suits us! Generalisations don't work on either side of this debate. We're so quick to claim live music is misunderstood and then go and do the same thing the 'opposition'.
Anyone up for an afterwork drink at the Tote this arvo?
So who the hell does the director of the LLC answer to? Is it too late to get Prince William back to have a word with her?
MARCH!
Prince William isn't a her.
governer Mcquarie?, lord melbourne? lord kitchener?, the archbishop of london? queen victoria?
I hope Clare did speak. There's something about her that makes people listen.
I remember attending a VIC Rocks (funding) announcement and she was pretty awesome.
Mixed messages, or wha'?
[Lord Mayor Robert Doyle says extending five of Melbourne's high profile cultural festivals to the early hours of the morning will ''calm'' the city and bring about cultural change - not cause extra city violence.
Melbourne City Council will spend $117,000 extending the Melbourne International Comedy Festival, Melbourne Fringe Festival, Melbourne International Jazz Festival, Next Wave Festival and Melbourne International Film Festival to late in the night and even 8am in the morning. ](http://www.theage.com.au/national/calm-not-chaos-from-later-festival-hours-doyle-20100211-ntof.html)
link
I don't think this is a transcript, just a general overview.
Don;t see anything divisive at all...
Melbourne City Council =/= Victorian State Government
someone should make a movie ''Gudinski on Gudinski''
gudinski was playing biggus dickus, a timeworn negotiation strategy. it was highly effective by the sounds of it.
well exactly. send dave graney back to the mountain eating dim sims anyway.
dave look humour and the government , sorry not humour, adjective and the governent don't gell well. next time just eat a dim sim. a picture is worth a thousand words as they say.
and listen I'll give you a tip on how to fuck up high level talks in conference rooms: you go and get someone to waltz around with fish and chips and yeah dim sims and soy sauce, you waltz buy in the ante room wasfing that smell around and then you go in and open the door a few times introducing said dim sim smeall and pretty soon people are getting grumpy/people are distracted/board members want to stuff their faces/
BINGO! meeting adjurned.
I did it yesterday.
true story ask my wife.
Don't see anything divisive in pointing the finger at other kinds of licensed venue as the source of all evil?
I need a new dictionary, I guess.
Pilled up douches don't want to fight, just hug and kiss ya.
But speeded up douches, and their bourbonated douchey mates, they'll smash your fucking face in.
someone give this man a job
too soon?
Tough crowd.
thank you dave. i'm confident you're eloquent enough to talk about all this mess. on monday i think you need to PUSH HARD to get a suspension (or forebearance) of the fucked licence conditions - some concessions must be demanded.
The thing about task forces is that they are a slow process. So without a suspension, the venues will perish while the task force deliberates. And because they’re slow, the terms of it need to be really specifically defined with the clear outcome of getting the government to back off on overregulation of small live music venues. The critical thing is empirical research showing that the total costs of compliance exceed 1% of npbt for small live music venues. there's ways to do it.
My 2c worth.
= nanny state
and tell brumby to read up on the night time economy
Temet said:
Melbourne City Council =/= Victorian State Government
It's sad that VSG won't listen to their own research, let alone MCC research and policy.
Doyle: ''When we bring people into the city and to events, it makes the city safer,'' Cr Doyle said.
*He said the late-night cultural events would ''change the culture away from simple vertical drinking spaces to arts and cultural events''.*
He said the events would ''calm the city down''.
*The Lord Mayor said the cultural events would help transform Melbourne into a European-style all night city.*
He said the people coming for the late night cultural events ''are not the people that give us trouble''.
*''Our problem comes with the beer barns and people simply here for alcohol drugs and trouble,'' he said.''*
Clearly, bureaucrats see Comedy Festival and Next Wave patrons as somehow more responsible than live music fans, even though they are often the same fricken' people.
Ah, quote markup fail.
there's also the lovely letter doyle sent to me re Melbourne's policy for a 24 hour city that i put in the angry protesters thread. he's a big advocate for the night time economy. but .... he's local council.
Carmedy fans are, like.. mellow, maaan