Wolf & Cub’s Joel Byrne speaks to DARREN LEVIN about the conflict at the heart of the band’s new record 'Science & Sorcery'.

“We were in constant conflict,” says Joel Byrne of his working relationship with Chris Colonna, the brainz behind the Bumblebeez and the producer of Wolf & Cub’s latest LP Science & Sorcery.

Holed up in Colonna’s home studio in Braidwood – a sleepy “one-horse town” between Canberra and the NSW South Coast – the pair bickered like brothers while piecing together the band’s follow-up to their 2006 debut Vessels. On paper, it’s not difficult to see why. On the one hand, there’s Colonna with his pop sensibilities, his cut-and-paste aesthetic and his whimsical ‘tude (his is the sort of music you’d see alongside M.I.A on a General Pants sampler). On the other, there’s Adelaide’s Wolf & Cub, whose stoner riffs are tempered – to their detriment at times – by an overwhelming sense of seriousness.

Putting the two together was a juxtaposition of personalities and styles; as potentially combustible as water and hot oil. But, as Byrne explains down the phone from his Adelaide home, it’s exactly the reason why Colonna was the man for the job. "In the end, the very reasons why we shouldn’t work with Chris were the reasons why we should," he says.

So I had to dial about 18 numbers to get to you. Are you still in Adelaide or have you moved to Croatia?
Yeah, I’ve used one of those [calling] cards too. It’s pretty extensive, the whole process. For the making of the record I was based in Canberra and now I’m back in Adelaide. One of our other members have moved to Canberra as well.

What’s in Canberra?
Ah [pauses] girlfriends. That and real careers that we’ve decided to follow, government stuff [laughs].

Are you pleased with the reaction to the record so far?
Yeah, I am. It’s been received just as well I had anticipated. Actually, scratch that. I anticipated the reaction to be pretty bad, just cause I anticipated that with every record. But that’s a defense mechanism on my part. From what I’ve heard, I think people are quite surprised and like the fact that we took some risks.

Why did you decide to push yourselves out of your comfort zone for this record?
There were a few factors. We lost a member [Adam Edwards]. That caused us to reassess what was going on. We got a new member [multi-instrumentalist Marvin Hammond] and he brought a different thought process to making music. I think it was also looking at what kind of music we were making and other bands that were making that kind of music. It sort of made us go, “Are we doing it as well as we could?” There’s a big stoner rock scene in Adelaide … we weren’t over it, but we were looking at other rock bands and scenes.

It’s a really brave record, but were you guys prepared for a backlash?
Totally. We’ve experienced that in the lead-up to the record’s release, people speculating on what it might sound like. Even the reaction to the news that Chris was making the record instantly encouraged people to think we were making an electro-pop record, which was ridiculous. Chris is on a label [Modular] that puts out that sort of music every now and again, but I don’t think he’s got his feet firmly planted in that genre.

How did the collaboration with Chris come about? I imagine it wasn’t at your insistence?
No, but that’s the thing. We had the same apprehensions [about working with Chris] that a lot of people had as well, so I don’t blame people for having that opinion. It happened because of an off-hand comment by our manager. There was a lot of talk after we finished the demos about who was going to produce the record, and in our own minds we had an idea of who would make it. Our manager mentioned Chris’ name and my first instinct was to say no way. In all honesty, I thought it was his attempt to put us on that electro-pop bandwagon, you know, bands like MGMT and The Presets. We were worried about being perceived as jumping on that bandwagon and that’s why we didn’t think he was a good choice.

But I’m glad that we made that decision. We decided that we were going to do stuff that was more left-of-field for us … Something less associated with what [debut LP] Vessels was.

So you went with Chris to spite your manager, to call his bluff?
[Laughs] Not at all. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. In the end, the very reasons why we shouldn’t work with Chris were the reasons why we should.

Were you familiar with his stuff?
I had heard the White Printz and the other stuff, but I hadn’t heard his new record. When we were talking about working with him, my girlfriend and I picked up his latest record [Prince Umberto and the Sister of Ill] and that was when I thought that this could really work. The final decision was made after we spent a few days together working on a couple demos. He was definitely not what I expected. He’s got a bit of a reputation for being a difficult guy to work with, and to an extent he can be. He’s definitely a mood kind of guy. He has to be in the mood, which can be pretty frustrating when you have a deadline [laughs].

That was definitely a contributing factor to why it was so delayed. But there were some other contributing factors. We didn’t have the kind of budget where everyone could drop everything for two months and dedicate their lives to the Wolf & Cub record. Chris had commitments with the Bumblebeez and the studio was at his home, so he’s not going to want to have everyone at his home, in his personal space for two months straight.

So how long did the whole thing take to put together?
On and off, seven to eight months. A good part of last year.

And you were commuting back and forth between Braidwood and Canberra/Adelaide?
Predominantly, I was in Canberra, so I was back and forth from Canberra to Braidwood. I think the fact that it took as long as it did helped the record. It contributed to the looseness of it. I feel like there’s a sense of effortlessness to it. For me, it wasn’t like we were trying that hard to sound a certain way, it was a little more comfortable.

Then again, it sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into how the songs run together.
That came towards the end when we decided what tracks were going to make it. But that’s the litmus test and it’s probably why it’s called Science & Sorcery. There’s this conflict between one way of doing things and another. In one respect, Chris is quite manic and difficult to work with and unpredictable. But he can be very professional when he wants to be, especially with song structures and sequencing. He’s quite conservative sometimes, but he’s also quite crazy.

How far away are the songs now from the initial demos?
They’re vastly different, which is indicative of how difficult it was to make this record. We had an idea of how we were going to make it, and then this third party came along and it was like, “OK, let’s commit to this, let’s give in to these ideas that he’s coming up with and see what happens.”

In that sense, are you happy with the end product? Or would you prefer those initial demos?
No, no I’m definitely happy with the record. I think I’ve gone through a lot of growth with this record as well. Personally, my approach to making music is a lot different than what it was when we started. There’s a little more freedom in how I write now. You can’t over think songs or over think music. Sometimes you have to let it naturally evolve and that was definitely the case with this record. We tried to steer it one way, and half-way through we were like, “This is not how it wants to sound. It wants to sound like this, let’s try and move it in that direction.”

“We pretty much had an idea of how the record would sound at the demo stage. Everyone was there, everyone was feeling good about it. We decided to make the record with Chris and everything changed.”

Was it freedom in terms of genre too, because it does sound like a crossover record?
We were under the impression that we did stuff in different styles, but Chris was like, “No you don’t. You’re a straight-up rock band.” [Laughs]. We had so many arguments. He was a really good guy to work with and I really appreciated my time with him, but the relationship in the end was like two brothers bickering. Lots of in-jokes, but it was fun. I didn’t really answer your question there, did I?

Well, do you think it has crossover potential?
We didn’t set out to make a record with crossover appeal. I wanted to inject a little bit of a pop sensibility into it, because I love pop music. I love all the old pop stuff. I love Motown and Chris loves that as well. So he wanted to try and bring out the choruses and work on melodies, which is something that I really wanted to do. I’m not saying that we’re a pop band but I’d like to have a bit of a marriage between psych rock – or whatever it is – and pop. T.Rex did it really well and I’d love to be able to do that too.

I think people are going to hear this record and put all the cutting and pasting down to Chris. But were you part of that too?
Yeah, it was definitely a case of that. There were a couple things there that I was a little wary of, but at the same time I just gave into it and let it happen. I like his cut-and-paste aesthetic and I thought there was room for that in the Wolf & Cub sound. We could try and make a live record, but I’ve come to the realisation that they’re two different mediums. Trying to achieve that in the studio, is something we couldn’t do.

But the basis of the songs were tracked live?
The demos were done in a live context, but when it came to making the record we though we’d cut it up and do it more like that. It’s Chris’ interpretation of how he saw the band. In a way, it was like when you give your tracks to someone to remix. It definitely had that sort of vibe. But we were there and we called the shots.

So you had the final say?
Ultimately, we had the last say … but we put a lot of faith in him. It was hard to give into a producer like that and really sort of let your band be produced. But that’s what I felt we needed right from the start.

At what point did you think, “Yeah, I can trust this guy”?
At no point [laughs]. That’s a conversation we had ad nauseam. We argued about it quite a lot and it really tested the relationship within the band. Some people agreed with what Chris had to say, but the majority of the time we all didn’t. It was a trying record to make.

I’m not surprised then that it took such a long time to make. There was such an overwhelming amount of opinions and sounds.
Put it this way, we pretty much had an idea of how the record would sound at the demo stage. Everyone was there, everyone was feeling good about it. We decided to make the record with Chris and everything changed. We were suddenly making this kind of record and either you allow that to happen, make the decision within yourself and be confident about it, or you spend the majority of time making the record in conflict. And that’s how it was.

Do you think the demos will ever see the light of day?
They’ll be good for B-sides, because they are so different. They’re almost like completely different songs, which is cool. To be honest, I have few regrets about this whole process, regardless of how trying it was and how much it tested the relationships within the band. I’m glad. Obviously that has to do with the slightly positive reaction we’ve been getting from people, but I’m sure if the reaction was bad I’d be feeling differently about it. At this point in time, I feel pretty good.

What was it like working in Braidwood? Can you tell us a bit about it?
It’s a one-horse town. It’s the town you pass through to get somewhere else. It’s sort of like the town I grew up in, so I felt comfortable there. It was a really good environment in that it was really relaxed and had few of the outside influences that you get in the city. But there were distractions. Chris’ place seems to be the party place in Braidwood. Every now and then his friends would turn up. You’d be recording and, before you knew it, you’d be abandoning the recording session to party. Which is cool and it also contributed to the vibe of the record.

Well, it does have that party vibe …
[*Laughs] I think that’s how Chris likes it. The record was a lot darker before he got his hands on it. He’s more about making uplifting tracks. He struggles with the darker stuff.

The record takes so many twists and turns, it’s hard to work out whether it’s dark or light.
Yeah, and that’s something I’m not ashamed of. I don’t know how I’d feel about making a record with 10 standard rock tracks. I don’t think Wolf & Cub could do that with a lot of success.

How are you going to pull this record off live?
Um [pauses] with great difficulty [laughs] … I think it requires Marvin to step away from the kit and do some different stuff. He’s going to be playing keys on a couple tracks. It requires everyone in the band to pick up their game, move away from their stock standard role. It requires JC to do some stuff with the sampler, Tommy to do some more stuff, me to do a little bit more stuff. It’s turning out to be quite a challenge, actually.

So you weren’t tempted to just play the demos live?
Nah, but I’m sure that’s how it’ll come out. We’re not going to aim to recreate the record note for note, but that’s part of the fun as well. The show will be a reinterpretation, but our shows will always be a wall-of-sound – loud and quite frustrating for listeners and reviewers alike [laughs].

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‘SCIENCE & SORCERY’ TOUR

Thursday, June 11
Republic Bar, Hobart, TAS

Friday, June 12
Fowlers Live, Adelaide, SA

Wednesday, June 17
Mona Vale Hotel, Mona Vale, NSW

Thursday, June 18
Cambridge Hotel, Newcastle, NSW

Friday, June 19
Oxford Arts Factory, Sydney, NSW

Saturday, June 20
Oxford Tavern, Wollongong, NSW

Sunday, June 21
ANU Bar, Canberra, ACT

Wednesday, June 24
The Loft, Warnambool, VIC

Thursday, June 25
Barwon Club, Geelong, VIC

Friday, June 26
Corner Hotel, Melbourne, VIC

Saturday, June 27
Karova Lounge, Ballarat, VIC

Wednesday, July 1
Seaview Tavern, Woolgoolga, NSW

Thursday, July 2
Sound Lounge, Currumbin, QLD

Friday, July 3
The Zoo, Brisbane, QLD

Saturday, July 4
Woombye Hotel, Noosa, QLD

Sunday, July 5
Great Northern Hotel, Byron Bay, NSW

Thursday, July 9
Settlers Tavern, Margaret River, WA

Friday, July 10
Prince of Wales, Bunbury, WA

Saturday, July 11
Rosemount Hotel, Perth, WA

Sunday, July 12
Mojo's, Fremantle, WA